I am wondering if most merchants allow customers to use a separate shipping and billing address.
We just received our first challenge from our Merchant bank's chargeback department. The only thing out of the ordinary is a shipping address that differs from the billing address (same street and town, different address).
Do we set ourselves up for trouble when we allow different addresses?
Full Version: Accepting Different Shipping And Billing Addresses
We also received a charge back today and the same thing, different Billing and shipping address. We have a very small charge back ratio but they hurt bigtime none the less. We are discussing only shipping to the billing address. Is there a way to set that in our site so they do not have a choice of where it ship? I hate to make things harder for our customer though since many of them are businesses. I too would be interested in what others think
Nock on wood so far we have not been hit. You can set your site to not allow a second shipping address.
However this keeps people from ordering from you to send gifts to kids away at school and friends, also a lot of people get thier billing statement at a PO box and UPS will not ship to a PO Box if you are shipping larger items. Thats not to say you can't us Priority mail to ship to them with. But larger items needing to be shipped by a trucking company needs a street address to deliver to.
However this keeps people from ordering from you to send gifts to kids away at school and friends, also a lot of people get thier billing statement at a PO box and UPS will not ship to a PO Box if you are shipping larger items. Thats not to say you can't us Priority mail to ship to them with. But larger items needing to be shipped by a trucking company needs a street address to deliver to.
Hey Guys-
This is an issue that gets bigger everyday. More and more people are using their credit card to commit fraud. Merchant account companies favor the consumer so heavily, that we merchants get really hurt by this.
Not allowing people to ship to an alternate addy is really going to hurt your sales. I don't recommend it. Depending on your store's volume, a confirmation call to every customer is a good way to stop this all together. BUT if you don't have time or if you store does big volume, we have to look to other solutions.
The type of chargeback you guys are talking about is difficult because real people use their real card and send items to a friend's address and then just charge back becuase they know they can get away with it.
I think credit card companies thought they were doing a good thing for web merchants by allowing their customers to feel comfortable shopping online, knowing that they have recourse against a merchant that is dishonest, however, they have taken this policy too far. I do believe that we will see a shift in the credit card companies' policies. This is costing them a TON too. Think of the number of people that it takes to process and read all of these chargebacks.
MonsterCommerce is also investigating several options to help cut down on these issues using software. The most promising product we have found is an identity verifcation program from a company that used to be called IShopSecure. They have recently changed their name to VerId.
Their software is really amazing. It accesses hundreds of government databases and find information about the customer that ONLY the customer would know. For example, as someone is proceeding throuh checkout, this system would ask them three questions:
TO VERIFY YOUR IDENTITY, PLEASE ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS:
Which of these street names look familiar?
a. Smith Road
b. Route 159
c. Oak Crest Drive
The crazy part is that these streets are not the customers current address, these might be a street where their parents live or a place they lived when they were a kid,etc.
When i did the demo, the street that i recognised was a street i lived on in KINDERGARDEN! It was amazing. They use info from parents tax returns, from speeding tickets, etc. The bottom line is the info is very easy for the correct person to provide but my best friend could probably not answer the three questions they posed to me. To checkout this project go here:
http://www.verid.com/home.html
Our main reservation with this system is that people are not used to seeing information that unique about them...this might scare people. We will probably add it as an option for merchants that operate in high risk categories.
Let me know what you guys think!
-gup
ps- Dani - I don't know if you remember me, but I was the one you spoke with when you first setup with MC!
This is an issue that gets bigger everyday. More and more people are using their credit card to commit fraud. Merchant account companies favor the consumer so heavily, that we merchants get really hurt by this.
Not allowing people to ship to an alternate addy is really going to hurt your sales. I don't recommend it. Depending on your store's volume, a confirmation call to every customer is a good way to stop this all together. BUT if you don't have time or if you store does big volume, we have to look to other solutions.
The type of chargeback you guys are talking about is difficult because real people use their real card and send items to a friend's address and then just charge back becuase they know they can get away with it.
I think credit card companies thought they were doing a good thing for web merchants by allowing their customers to feel comfortable shopping online, knowing that they have recourse against a merchant that is dishonest, however, they have taken this policy too far. I do believe that we will see a shift in the credit card companies' policies. This is costing them a TON too. Think of the number of people that it takes to process and read all of these chargebacks.
MonsterCommerce is also investigating several options to help cut down on these issues using software. The most promising product we have found is an identity verifcation program from a company that used to be called IShopSecure. They have recently changed their name to VerId.
Their software is really amazing. It accesses hundreds of government databases and find information about the customer that ONLY the customer would know. For example, as someone is proceeding throuh checkout, this system would ask them three questions:
TO VERIFY YOUR IDENTITY, PLEASE ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS:
Which of these street names look familiar?
a. Smith Road
b. Route 159
c. Oak Crest Drive
The crazy part is that these streets are not the customers current address, these might be a street where their parents live or a place they lived when they were a kid,etc.
When i did the demo, the street that i recognised was a street i lived on in KINDERGARDEN! It was amazing. They use info from parents tax returns, from speeding tickets, etc. The bottom line is the info is very easy for the correct person to provide but my best friend could probably not answer the three questions they posed to me. To checkout this project go here:
http://www.verid.com/home.html
Our main reservation with this system is that people are not used to seeing information that unique about them...this might scare people. We will probably add it as an option for merchants that operate in high risk categories.
Let me know what you guys think!
-gup
ps- Dani - I don't know if you remember me, but I was the one you spoke with when you first setup with MC!
Yes, you are at risk if you ship to a different address then what is on file with the Credit card company. Here are some ways that you can reduce this risk.
1. DO NOT ship to any address, except the address that is on file with the credit card company, because when the chargeback comes back 3-6 months later, and the card company asks you to fax all that information in, and it was not shipped to the billing address, they are going to do a chargeback really quick. Cardholders are allowed to dispute a charge on their card for up to 9 months after the transaction. Really it is hard for people to have protection, that is why a lot of people use Paypal, because they have that buyer protection if you ship to the confirmed address.
2. If your customer wants the merchandise shipped to another address, somewhere next to that payment option, tell them that you only ship to the billing address and if they want it shipped elsewhere they need to call their card company and request they add that address as an alternate confirmed address. If you really want to be safe, ask the cardholder to fax in a copy of their card, ID, and sign the bottom of the sheet saying they authorize the transaction.
3. Ask the cardholder for their bank phone number - we do this and tell the customer that we will be calling their bank to verify their address information. When they give you their bank phone number, you call the bank and tell the bank that you have one of their cardholder's trying to make a purchase, but before you can charge the card, you need to verify their address. Most of the banks are very cooperative and are willing to help you check this information. However, they will not give you any information. You have to see the information they gave me is ...... and they will say, yes that matches with what we have or no that doesn't match. Sometimes they also do phone number matches, so you can ask for that.
4. Visa has a merchant line in which you can call and get AVS verification for their card holders. It is automated and fast. The number is : 1-800-847-2750.
5. when shipping items over $250.00 in value, we as merchants are required to get signatures from every cardholder who purchase over this amount or at this amount. To rid this problem, we make sure every package gets signed for regardless the value.
6. Keep all of the invoices. Because like I said, a cardholder can dispute a transaction for up to 9 months, which is not fair to the merchants, but that is the way it is.
all in all, we want to make this the easiest for our customers when shopping with us, but it is a very good idea to protect yourself, because those few chargebacks can make you one, lose your merchant capabilities (because card companies like Visa, MC, etc... require you to stay under and certain chargeback rate, which is I believe 2.1% over a whole year) and 2. chargebacks can set you back if shipping high value items.
I hope this post helped a few people.
1. DO NOT ship to any address, except the address that is on file with the credit card company, because when the chargeback comes back 3-6 months later, and the card company asks you to fax all that information in, and it was not shipped to the billing address, they are going to do a chargeback really quick. Cardholders are allowed to dispute a charge on their card for up to 9 months after the transaction. Really it is hard for people to have protection, that is why a lot of people use Paypal, because they have that buyer protection if you ship to the confirmed address.
2. If your customer wants the merchandise shipped to another address, somewhere next to that payment option, tell them that you only ship to the billing address and if they want it shipped elsewhere they need to call their card company and request they add that address as an alternate confirmed address. If you really want to be safe, ask the cardholder to fax in a copy of their card, ID, and sign the bottom of the sheet saying they authorize the transaction.
3. Ask the cardholder for their bank phone number - we do this and tell the customer that we will be calling their bank to verify their address information. When they give you their bank phone number, you call the bank and tell the bank that you have one of their cardholder's trying to make a purchase, but before you can charge the card, you need to verify their address. Most of the banks are very cooperative and are willing to help you check this information. However, they will not give you any information. You have to see the information they gave me is ...... and they will say, yes that matches with what we have or no that doesn't match. Sometimes they also do phone number matches, so you can ask for that.
4. Visa has a merchant line in which you can call and get AVS verification for their card holders. It is automated and fast. The number is : 1-800-847-2750.
5. when shipping items over $250.00 in value, we as merchants are required to get signatures from every cardholder who purchase over this amount or at this amount. To rid this problem, we make sure every package gets signed for regardless the value.
6. Keep all of the invoices. Because like I said, a cardholder can dispute a transaction for up to 9 months, which is not fair to the merchants, but that is the way it is.
all in all, we want to make this the easiest for our customers when shopping with us, but it is a very good idea to protect yourself, because those few chargebacks can make you one, lose your merchant capabilities (because card companies like Visa, MC, etc... require you to stay under and certain chargeback rate, which is I believe 2.1% over a whole year) and 2. chargebacks can set you back if shipping high value items.
I hope this post helped a few people.
Guppy,
This sounds like an amazing program! As a consumer, I would be happy to have these verification questions.
It would be easy to tell the customer that "because of the epidemic of identity theft and credit card fraud, we need to confirm their identity..." Most customers would appreciate that, I am quite sure.
Are you with
? Your Group id says "member," not "Admin."
Anyway, this feature is more important than anything I have ever suggested!
This sounds like an amazing program! As a consumer, I would be happy to have these verification questions.
It would be easy to tell the customer that "because of the epidemic of identity theft and credit card fraud, we need to confirm their identity..." Most customers would appreciate that, I am quite sure.
Are you with
? Your Group id says "member," not "Admin."Anyway, this feature is more important than anything I have ever suggested!
Hi Guppy,
Tell me who you are.
Your profile doesn;t say who you are but I am sure I will remember you!!.. The program sounds interesting but I think it sounds like it is a little too personal. I am the first one to say thanks to those clerks who ask to see my ID after I present my Credit card for payment because I know they are looking out for me but I think I would get a little paranoid if I was asked a question from the way past.
I agree that I think the Credit Card companies need to make things a little more secure for on-line merchants. Eventually I hope we all will have electronic signatures.
I was hoping something would be on-line now. I still think we all would do more business if people felt more comfy sharing CC info on the internet. Even Paypal is suseptable to fraud. My son sold some stuff on ebay that was payed with Paypal and it turned out to be fraud. Paypal grabbed the money immediately out of his account and he is battling them for the sellers guarentee. So no system is perfect.
We will get ripped off. That is business. We just have to be careful and smart. I know that in just about every case our gut said be careful. We just didn't listen. We have thought about only shipping to the bill to address but many of our customers have us ship to their work.
I would like to see us accepting the 3 digit code on the back of the card. At least that assures that the customer has the card in hand. It;s not much but its better than nothing.
Tell me who you are.
Your profile doesn;t say who you are but I am sure I will remember you!!.. The program sounds interesting but I think it sounds like it is a little too personal. I am the first one to say thanks to those clerks who ask to see my ID after I present my Credit card for payment because I know they are looking out for me but I think I would get a little paranoid if I was asked a question from the way past. I agree that I think the Credit Card companies need to make things a little more secure for on-line merchants. Eventually I hope we all will have electronic signatures.
I was hoping something would be on-line now. I still think we all would do more business if people felt more comfy sharing CC info on the internet. Even Paypal is suseptable to fraud. My son sold some stuff on ebay that was payed with Paypal and it turned out to be fraud. Paypal grabbed the money immediately out of his account and he is battling them for the sellers guarentee. So no system is perfect.
We will get ripped off. That is business. We just have to be careful and smart. I know that in just about every case our gut said be careful. We just didn't listen. We have thought about only shipping to the bill to address but many of our customers have us ship to their work.
I would like to see us accepting the 3 digit code on the back of the card. At least that assures that the customer has the card in hand. It;s not much but its better than nothing.
Hey Guys-
Most of you know me as MonsterCommerce's CEO! (Stephanie Leffler)
There goes my big secret!
As for the 3 digit code, that is part of 4.0 so we are all set there.
As for the fraud prevention program, we will most likely end up building it in and then giving merchants an option about turning it on and off (since it does carry a cost anyway).
Hope you are all doing well. I really enjoy the opportunity to speak with you all via these forums....
Next on the agenda...a MonsterCommerce users conference!
Steph
Most of you know me as MonsterCommerce's CEO! (Stephanie Leffler)
There goes my big secret!
As for the 3 digit code, that is part of 4.0 so we are all set there.
As for the fraud prevention program, we will most likely end up building it in and then giving merchants an option about turning it on and off (since it does carry a cost anyway).
Hope you are all doing well. I really enjoy the opportunity to speak with you all via these forums....
Next on the agenda...a MonsterCommerce users conference!
Steph
THe CEO!!!!!!!!!
Cannot get any better then that.
That is awesome for you to take you time to come to the forums.
ha ha
Cannot get any better then that.
That is awesome for you to take you time to come to the forums.
ha ha
Yeah... it is great to see the COO & CEO along with the heads of development and technical support in here with us 
rocks!
rocks!
Our company has been doing business on the net since 1997. We have only had 4 chargebacks, all in one year, since this time. We require certain information to be entered for credit card orders, including the CVS code located on the back of each card. It is the last 3 digits on the card, not on Amex though.
That has been a good deterent. But we find that most fraudulant orders are shipped to different addresses. The person committing the fraud is usually impatient and requests an expidited shipping method. They also order an above normal amount of merchandise. We do not ship internationally when a US billing address is used with an international shipping address. Your developing countries like Pakistan, Nigeria, India, Serbia, etc. are big offenders of this. We use AVS (address verification system) when processing orders, if we get an address that does not match, we contact the customer for the correct billing address and don't ship until we get it.
We also call the phone number provided to be sure it is a valid number and email returns on an order are another red flag.
We recently got an order with a US billing address and a Pakistan shipping address. When we called the phone number it was the person's correct phone number, address, etc. She did not place the order, but obviously someone has stolen more than just her credit card. They had ALL her personal info.
We do not want to deter ship to addresses, but scrutanize them very carefully.
If can come up with the Verid service, that would be great.
Tigger
That has been a good deterent. But we find that most fraudulant orders are shipped to different addresses. The person committing the fraud is usually impatient and requests an expidited shipping method. They also order an above normal amount of merchandise. We do not ship internationally when a US billing address is used with an international shipping address. Your developing countries like Pakistan, Nigeria, India, Serbia, etc. are big offenders of this. We use AVS (address verification system) when processing orders, if we get an address that does not match, we contact the customer for the correct billing address and don't ship until we get it.
We also call the phone number provided to be sure it is a valid number and email returns on an order are another red flag.
We recently got an order with a US billing address and a Pakistan shipping address. When we called the phone number it was the person's correct phone number, address, etc. She did not place the order, but obviously someone has stolen more than just her credit card. They had ALL her personal info.
We do not want to deter ship to addresses, but scrutanize them very carefully.
If
can come up with the Verid service, that would be great.Tigger
Hi Guppy
I had a feeling it was you Stephanie!! We used to chat alot way back when and I have enjoyed watching grow. Thanks for putting that 3 digit ID in 4.0. Anything we can do to keep our money is greatly appreciated.
I agree with Tigger in that there are signs of fraudulent credit card transaction. In our store we tend to sell just one of any particular product so a red flag for us is quantity ordering. Also expedited shipping is a give away as well. When ever a red flag goes up we always do a reverse IP lookup to see if the computer host makes sense. We are dubious about orders from Indonesia (we will not ship there at all) and Florida. We always check IP addresses of anything going to Florida if we are not shipping to the bill to address. The Tip off is that the IP address is off shore, cuba or some such place.
I had a feeling it was you Stephanie!! We used to chat alot way back when and I have enjoyed watching
grow. Thanks for putting that 3 digit ID in 4.0. Anything we can do to keep our money is greatly appreciated. I agree with Tigger in that there are signs of fraudulent credit card transaction. In our store we tend to sell just one of any particular product so a red flag for us is quantity ordering. Also expedited shipping is a give away as well. When ever a red flag goes up we always do a reverse IP lookup to see if the computer host makes sense. We are dubious about orders from Indonesia (we will not ship there at all) and Florida. We always check IP addresses of anything going to Florida if we are not shipping to the bill to address. The Tip off is that the IP address is off shore, cuba or some such place.
Hi, Stephanie! I'm glad the mask is off!
I'll be talking with you soon about our next site.
I'll be talking with you soon about our next site.
We received another chargeback today. Once again, it involved a person using a separate shipping and billing address. 
We are no longer allowing people to have product shipped to an address different than their billing address. If we lose sales, so be it.
It is critically important that incorporate these newer technologies (such as VerId) as soon as possible! This is more important than the "look good" features we often ask for (myself included).
Given that the bosses have their own store, I am hopeful that this issue will get the high priority it deserves. 
A question for CAPTAIN. If we wanted to incorporate VerId now would it be possible to do so? What would the custom programming fee be?
We are no longer allowing people to have product shipped to an address different than their billing address. If we lose sales, so be it.
It is critically important that
incorporate these newer technologies (such as VerId) as soon as possible! This is more important than the "look good" features we often ask for (myself included).Given that the
bosses have their own store, I am hopeful that this issue will get the high priority it deserves. A question for CAPTAIN. If we wanted to incorporate VerId now would it be possible to do so? What would the custom programming fee be?
Robert,
I forwarded your post to John Larson, he's is in charge of custom programming.
I forwarded your post to John Larson, he's is in charge of custom programming.
Hi Robert,
Yes, that could well be a very valuable feature for all of our customers. This is definately worth submitting as a new feature request for a new version. It'll have to wait until the next major release as everything is finalized in 4.0, but we could get this done for you as a custom programming job quite a bit sooner. We'll have to do our homework as to how the VerID system works to determine the complexity of the job, but we'll be happy to look into it for you!
John
Yes, that could well be a very valuable feature for all of our customers. This is definately worth submitting as a new feature request for a new version. It'll have to wait until the next major release as everything is finalized in 4.0, but we could get this done for you as a custom programming job quite a bit sooner. We'll have to do our homework as to how the VerID system works to determine the complexity of the job, but we'll be happy to look into it for you!
John
Thanks, John. I'll call you soon to talk about it. Perhaps we need to wait until 4.0, since that is suppose to be finished this month.
I have asked Verid for an online demo (it seems that you have to apply to see a demo).
Are there other competing technologies to look at that y'all know about?
I have asked Verid for an online demo (it seems that you have to apply to see a demo).
Are there other competing technologies to look at that y'all know about?
All,
What exactly is a chargeback? Thanks.
What exactly is a chargeback? Thanks.
A chargeback is when a customer that bought from you disputes a charge about something they bought from you(saying that they did not buy it or authorize the charge of their card). The chargeback comes when the Card Company automatically takes the money back from your account if they do not find sufficient evidence such as a signature authorizing the transaction or delivery to the billing address. All and all I do not reccommend shipping to any other address but the billing addres, you may loose sales but it is worth it to me.
Hey Guys-
I will look more into VerID. We will see if we can get this optional service added more quickly than we had originally planned.
-gup
I will look more into VerID. We will see if we can get this optional service added more quickly than we had originally planned.
-gup
Thanks Steph!
Update. These Verid people are useless! They do not respond to requests for information. They claim that they will arrange an internet demonstration, but don't get back to you when you ask for them.
I hope there are other companies out there working on this sort of technology.
I hope there are other companies out there working on this sort of technology.
Steph,
Verisign has an authentication program (click). I just went through it to verify my id for eBay.
It was not too intrusive and really works. They asked me to give the name of a street I lived on two years ago, to provide the next two numbers of a credit card I have (they provided the first four digits and I had to provide digits 5 and 6), and to give a street number from years gone by.
I passed. I am me!
Anyway, the Verid people were not very helpful, but I am happy to know that others have this technology, that it is being used, and that you are looking into making it a part of our shopping carts!
Robert
Verisign has an authentication program (click). I just went through it to verify my id for eBay.
It was not too intrusive and really works. They asked me to give the name of a street I lived on two years ago, to provide the next two numbers of a credit card I have (they provided the first four digits and I had to provide digits 5 and 6), and to give a street number from years gone by.
I passed. I am me!
Anyway, the Verid people were not very helpful, but I am happy to know that others have this technology, that it is being used, and that you are looking into making it a part of our shopping carts!
Robert
VerID may be interesting. But I'm not sure I trust them much. I'd want to know what their Type 1 errors are. That is, false positives.
Depending on whose studies you believe, 10% - 30% of the data in the 3 major credit bureaus records have some form of error. Clearly, VerID is drawing from these and other sources.
As a result, there may be a lot of false positives. Maybe that's a price we'll pay if fraud otherwise costs too much.
This doesn't necessarily mean you'll lose a customer. But more likely than not, unless you have something unique, a customer rejected for reason probably won't come back. Or, minimally, you may have to take more personal time/cost in manually approving an order.
I'll be looking forward to see how VerID does in the marketplace in general. They also have a "spooky" factor that may just turn customers right off period.
Scott
Depending on whose studies you believe, 10% - 30% of the data in the 3 major credit bureaus records have some form of error. Clearly, VerID is drawing from these and other sources.
As a result, there may be a lot of false positives. Maybe that's a price we'll pay if fraud otherwise costs too much.
This doesn't necessarily mean you'll lose a customer. But more likely than not, unless you have something unique, a customer rejected for reason probably won't come back. Or, minimally, you may have to take more personal time/cost in manually approving an order.
I'll be looking forward to see how VerID does in the marketplace in general. They also have a "spooky" factor that may just turn customers right off period.
Scott
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